A smart man once said,
"This understanding of the secret message of Jesus makes sense of a number of odd details of the gospel story, such as why the resurrection of Jesus wouldn't be miraculously broadcasted to millions as irrefutable evidence of Jesus' legitimacy. Can you see it? As soon as the evidence becomes irrefutible, it takes on a kind of domineering power-- the kind of force so effectively yielded by principalities and powers. INstead, in keeping with the kingdom of God's secret, paradoxical, and apparently weak power, the first in on the secret are a few women-- unacceptable in their day as legitimate witnesses in court-- vulnerable people who can easily be ignored and dismissed by those who prefer the status quo, the powers that be, the systems and regimes that function as "kingdoms of this world." These humble women will be believed only by those who want to believe, those who freely choose to believe".
--Brian McLaren "The Secret Message of Jesus"
I am not saying that apologetics are not necessary, but I agree with my friend Wayne who explained that his apologetic for the resrrection was to strengthen the faith of believers rather than to convert those who haven't been enlightnened. I often hear people (even friends I respect) suggest that books like "A Case for Christ" or any of the 100 strands of this series are a good place for "un-believers" to start to explore Christianity. I'll bet that it has been good for some, but just find that as we move away from a cerebral gospel (modernism) and into an experiential gospel (post-modernism) these type books will become less and less important.
What say you? Any D. James Kennedy fans? Josh MacDowell? Lee Stroebel? What are your impressions of this topic?
"This understanding of the secret message of Jesus makes sense of a number of odd details of the gospel story, such as why the resurrection of Jesus wouldn't be miraculously broadcasted to millions as irrefutable evidence of Jesus' legitimacy. Can you see it? As soon as the evidence becomes irrefutible, it takes on a kind of domineering power-- the kind of force so effectively yielded by principalities and powers. INstead, in keeping with the kingdom of God's secret, paradoxical, and apparently weak power, the first in on the secret are a few women-- unacceptable in their day as legitimate witnesses in court-- vulnerable people who can easily be ignored and dismissed by those who prefer the status quo, the powers that be, the systems and regimes that function as "kingdoms of this world." These humble women will be believed only by those who want to believe, those who freely choose to believe".
--Brian McLaren "The Secret Message of Jesus"
I am not saying that apologetics are not necessary, but I agree with my friend Wayne who explained that his apologetic for the resrrection was to strengthen the faith of believers rather than to convert those who haven't been enlightnened. I often hear people (even friends I respect) suggest that books like "A Case for Christ" or any of the 100 strands of this series are a good place for "un-believers" to start to explore Christianity. I'll bet that it has been good for some, but just find that as we move away from a cerebral gospel (modernism) and into an experiential gospel (post-modernism) these type books will become less and less important.
What say you? Any D. James Kennedy fans? Josh MacDowell? Lee Stroebel? What are your impressions of this topic?
9 comments:
Personally I like Josh McDowell's "More Than a Carpenter" more than Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ" simply because of the fact that it's about 2 centimeters thick and you can read it in a couple of hours. Seriously, who wants to read Lee go on and on beating you over the head with why you have to believe in Jesus? I never finished his book, but I think if I did I'd want to stop being a Christian just by principle.
On a more serious note, though, I think apologetics are neccesary - but not in the way we typically think about it. I'm not going to try to argue athiests into believing there is a God. In fact, I tend to agree with their arguments more than those of Christians! But I do have a belief deep in the core of my being that the Christian God is real and actually cares about me. It's not something I can argue, but it is something I can talk about.
One last note - I've been thinking about Pascal's wager lately (if you believe in God and you're wrong you don't lose anything, if you don't believe in God and you're wrong you lose everything). I've decided I don't like this approach at all. This is totally bogus. If it turns out God did not exist and I came face to face with this reality moments before I ceased to exist, I would feel like my whole life was a waste, and I would have lost everything that is important to me. On top of that, it makes it sound like the only thing you have to do is believe that God exists and "you're in" when you die. I don't think this line of thinking can have good results.
"domineering power"...that's kind of my take on modern apologetics. It's not about making a difference in someone's life and letting the Holy Spirit do the work, it's about how articulate you can convey your "testimony". If you are a convincing and particularly "forgiven" soul (having done much to produce tears from your audience) then you'll likely get more people to the alter than say...a child who was raised by Godly parents and taught to love, honor, and respect the traditions of the faith thus leading to an acceptance of that faith when the time is right would. I have had countless friends tell me after I had forcably given my "testimony" infront of huge crowds that theirs was "nothing" compared to mine! This is exactly why I never wanted to share those things with people. I felt manipulated into sharing one type of "convert" being the prodigal child. This has damaged my perception of testimonials forever, I"m sure, but that's beside the point. I have always, I repeat ALWAYS, believed that a person's story of what God means to them or who God is to them or how ever you want to define the guts of evangelism, comes better in the guts of an on-going legit relationship building process. I am certainly not wired to be a "heat-seeking-misile" of who's a goat and who's a sheep so who needs to hear the gosple and who needs to share it. Frankly I could care less about that stuff. I think it's about way deeper needs. I think Jesus first healed their physical, tangible needs. That was their first taste of sozo, then they believed what others had already told them about this man or they simply "knew" he was who generations had been waiting for.
But, what the heck do I know? I'm just trying to live this life the best I can and love as many people I can through my words, actions, and spirit.
P.S. I wonder what our kids will have to say about all this stuff in 20 years, you know?
hey jodi.
so remember how our kids devoured salad at your house?
i bought all the fixings for salad the next day, and served it with dinner, all excited that they would like it.
no one touched it.
hmmm. confusing kids.
hope you are well.
i'm anxious to hear christian's "exciting news". Is it a job possibilitiy?
i know you aren't jodi, christian, but i couldn't get my comment to post on her blog.
I have a few suggestions for good reading material. If you get the chance check out "The Way of The Master" by Ray Comfort and "One Thing You Can't Do In Heaven" by Mark Cahill. Also if you're interested in good witnessing material, and if you're a Christian you should be, you can find links at my blog: http://thecow-juicecure.blogspot.com/index.html
Feel free to link to me and help other Christians learn how to put their faith into action.
In Christ
Hi Christian,
Great post. i agree that apologetics are more for believers than unbelievers. St. Anslem wrote his own apologetic and calls it "Faith seeking Reason". That was in 1200ad. The idea being that we need to start with faith and move toward reason. You are right, the modern apologetic is on its way out. There is a post-modern apologetic emerging. Wish i could tell you more about it.
Hey folks. Thanks for the comments guys. I really liked your comments Jodi. I agree with much of what you said.
"Frankly I could care less about that stuff. I think it's about way deeper needs".
I do care about the knowledge aspect of Christianity, but agree that the needs of God's creation run much deeper than an intellectual understanding of doctrinal issues.
Oscar, thanks for hopping in on the conversation. I think you may have posted a while ago, but I haven't been following things very closely lately. But I'm not really sure about what you were trying to communicate by what you posted. You didn't really address anything specifically in my post but instead plugged your blog (which is fine by me actually) and gave some books for us to read. Interested to discuss some of the specifics in the books or on my blog. I'd love to if you're interested.
Keith- "You are right, the modern apologetic is on its way out. There is a post-modern apologetic emerging. Wish i could tell you more about it".
So... Get to it. What do you have to say?
thanks Christian, I found a link to your blog from a friend and was having a look. I agree with what you said -"I do care about the knowledge aspect of Christianity, but agree that the needs of God's creation run much deeper than an intellectual understanding of doctrinal issues."-
The point of my comment was to stir Christians to study scripture and get out and put their faith into action, that we need to spend more time working on a sinners conscience than his intellect. Mostly I tried to find an appropriate place to put my plug in on your blog, so thanks for the warm welcome.
I'm also not trying to push the teaching of one person (Ray Comfort) above all but want to share some links to help in the transition in speaking about spiritual things with the unsaved. And I want to stress the importance that everything should be compared with the gospel.
thanks again,
Oscar
Hey Oscar. Do I know your friend? Or did you just stumble accross my blog by searching "heresy and people who are going to hell". Just kidding. Maybe I shouldn't joke since I don't knwo you very well.
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