Check out this News article from CNN.
Click here dippy.
Click here dippy.
I am constantly amazed at the anti-Catholic sentiments in this country. In the past couple years I have experienced first hand evangelical Christians renouncing the Catholic faith and it's members. It has happened so often that I probably shouldn't be surprised anymore.
I differ with some of Catholic doctrine and won't see eye to eye on a lot that the new Pope has to say, but I consider the Catholic Church a beautiful and important part of the body of Christ. I'd like to highlight a few encounters with Catholic Hatred in the local circles that I've milled around in.
1. During the '04 election, I was discussing presidential hopefulls with some RBC students in a public area of the college. The college had sent around some "unbiased" voting info for all of its students to peruse. It was mostly, "Bush could be Messiah returning. I hope you're ready." and "Kerry is the anti-Christ. If you vote for him, you will turn gay and have to have an abortion" type things. The brochure also had on it what church the hopefulls were a part of. Under Kerry it had "He has flip-flopped on this issue too. He is part of the Church of Satan but is also a nominal catholic". (It didn't really say that). Under Bush, it mentioned that he was Methodist. I said out loud, "Oh boy!!! Bush is a Methodist. I can't vote for him." I was joking. I really couldn't vote for him, but not because he was Methodist. Just as I said that, the Dean's secretary walked by, heard me and said, "At least he's not catholic!". I didn't know how to respond.
2. Jodi and I were looking for a church in our neighborhood. I hate the baptist church and all baptists, but the only church around that wasn't catholic was a baptist church. So, we went. The pastor fromt he pulpit mentioned how their organist was catholic all her life but once she started to play the organ at the Baptist church, she heard the gospel for the first time and got saved. He then went on to make some other disparaging remarks regarding the CC. Later he came a callin' to our house and I asked him about his remarks. he drew out the difference between orthodox doctrine and catholic doctrine and how we just need to help the catholics be smarter and resist the devil. We told him he didn't need to come a callin' again and that we wouldn't be coming back.
3. At work, we take the kids to Kentwood Community Church. It is very vissually stimulating. There are a lot of lights and loud music and the worship leader is very smiley and fun. The people realy close their eyes hard when they pray. Nothing wrong with any of that. There was a testimony time one day and this guy came up and testified about how he got out of the trap of catholicism and how he praises God for KCC. I think people may have actually clapped. My friend, Luke, who is catholic didn't clap. I think it made him feel sad or another emotion on that end of the spectrum.
Did you go to CNN and read that article? I think that even though the man apologized for the remark, it will probably help the Huckabee camp. Being Catholic is a dirty secret I think if you are a Republican. But I don't get why. The Catholic Church is very conservative on issues that are important to Republicans: abortion, stem cell, and homosexuality. I guess as we're getting things hashed out for the primaries, this kind of thing will happen on both sides of the aisle. But I don't have to like it.
23 comments:
I heard that Dobson was thinking of becoming a Catholic.
Christian,
I think the link you want is: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/01/rude-e-mail-causes-battle-in-iowa/
I had to scroll way down to find the article cause you have a link to the main page so the head line is always changing.
Anyway, I am currently in an email conversation with a friend who is a baptist who believes that Catholics are not Christians. It is very discouraging to me that such a mind frame is even out there (perhaps even prevalent among conservative evangelicals). My temptation is to just ignore such people or comments but by doing so I know I fail to be witness of the kingdom (and the unity to which we are called). So I am trying. But it is so hard.
Blessings,
Wayne
Thanks Wayne. I think I got the link right now.
Bard- who is this? I think I know because you sound like a big Dobson fan. That could mean you are one of the 150 RBC students. Brad Elders. How did you find my blog. This is for serious scholarly people who love the Lord.
Hey Christian,
Give me a call when you can.
i told a lady in church today that her husband (who goes to the catholic church) was going to hell and that she would too if she decided to join him at the catholic church....but mostly it was because i was trying to brainwash her into staying at our church, because she is one of the only people under 50 there....and i like her.
she was JUST saying that she isn't really even sure she knows why she goes here and he goes there, except that she thinks that the catholic church focuses on the CHURCH and the protestant church focuses on the BIBLE....and you can read the bible after you leave the protestant church, but most catholics don't take church home with them...they leave it there...and then she laughed, and said "maybe that is just my husband and not how the whole catholic church is..." but anyway, my point is....they go to separate churches, making their family separate on a day that could be a great family day (and she longs to make it a family affair) because they both have been taught that the other is bad. She has been taught that the catholic church is bad, and he (her husband) has been brought up in a family where you keep going to the same "family church" if it kills you...mostly because it has always been that way.
Well, I finally made it. Christian, your blog makes me excited about talking about Christianity. Unlike most of seminary that is making me irritated and sick of the converstation...and Christians...and...Catholics? I love you.
Yeah, this is constantly a "hot" button for me. Anytime I hear a "Christian" proclaim that another Christian can't possibly have their heart with God, I want to punch them in the face. Hmm, maybe if more of us left "church" at "church" we'd get more "church" done, eh? Ever think about that one? I don't really know what I'm saying.
i think all catholics are going to hell, as most christians are too.
Isn't it strange that the religion that started Christianity (Catholicism) is so widely hated?
Reason? People don't know their history. There were no other Christian sects when the Holy Roman Empire decided to convert to Christianity, it was strictly Catholic – later on other religions branched from the “One” church, and they are known as “Protestant” (sorry if I am dumbing this down a bit, but people really don't know where Christianity comes from). The Roman Empire split into two (East and West) and the Byzantine's became an Orthodox Catholic offshoot (but still Catholic). It wasn't until much later that other “Protestant” churches began to manifest. The outcome of the protestant manifestation heralds a new breed of religion... Fundamentalist Evangelicals. Fundamentalist Evangelical belief is that if you are not born again (from any other church but theirs) you will go to hell, and that every aspect of the bible is true. Evangelicals hate Catholics, because they have been brainwashed into a non-historic view of how Christianity originated. Evangelicals have also been brainwashed into a non-scientific view of the world around them – while the Catholic religion actually embraces science – and even employs scientists. Plus, it seems while Fundamentalists keep stirring up the tides of hate – Catholics don't. Fundamentalist Evangelicals want war in Iraq and the middle east (to speed up the coming of the Apocalypse – and the return of Christ), while the Vatican in Rome has renounced the war – even asking Bush to withdraw the troops.
Evangelical beliefs in my opinion are that of the anti-Christ, and coincide with the belief systems of Shea Muslims who also want and believe in a great apocalypse that is soon to come. Fact.
This is in response to Micheal...
"People don't know their history. "
I'm a history major.
"There were no other Christian sects when the Holy Roman Empire decided to convert to Christianity,
Totally false. See Donatinits and Paulicans Church in the East.
"It wasn't until much later that other “Protestant” churches began to manifest"
Martin Luther was a priest with the backing of German Princes, therefore since the Establishment backed him he was allowed the first
Lutheran Church.
People like Jan Hus and other groups were burned at the stake in earlier centuries and didn't have his political support. Most Churches that disagreed meet in houses and in secret of the establishment.
Evangelicals have also been brainwashed into a non-scientific view of the world around them – while the Catholic religion actually embraces science –
Though I don't' represent all evangelicals, they are very diverse. There is nothing non0scientific about my views, because Jesus believed in Moses and the Torah.
Jesus said, "If you believed in Moses you would of believed in me, for he WROTE of me."
Every Christian has Catholic roots so when any non-Catholic criticizes the Church they are essentially criticizing their Christian/Catholic heritage that you cannot deny exists. Open up your mind people.
I just wanted to express my deep loathing for catholics and the entire Roman Catholic Church. You are misled, deceived, and the worst kind of evil(next to islam). What a terrible curse you are to our young and to the naive. Why don't you go pray to one of your many false idols or molest some innocent boys. I pray God shows you mercy, but judges you fairly for what you have done.
May we all find peace and understanding across all religions. Anonymous, I pray that one day you will come to understand that all walks of human life and their religions endure some levels of corruption, but that there will always be people of peace and love within them. It breaks my heart that you spread hate to followers of God (Catholics and Muslims), despite your insistence that you are praying for them. And for the record, Catholics do not have idols, but rather examples (saints) of those who followed God's word as preached by the prophets and Jesus Christ. May you one day enjoy the company of those who do not understand, and come to appreciate them for who they truly are and not condemn them for what you believe them to be from afar.
If only all the world understood one another, there would be peace.
Well said, my friend. God bless you anonymous. I will be praying for both of you.
burn the catholic church down. false religion. horrible lies and full of bullshit dogma. what a crappy religion.
@ silverbell
Donatinits and Paulicans Church in the East were Christian sects?
Totally false, you said you are a history yet still you know much about true history.
Paulicians were heretics, a sect who imparts false teaching, they call themselves Christians yet they can't actually be considered Christians.
”A dualistic heretical sect, derived originally from Manichaeism...The cardinal point of the Paulician heresy is a distinction between the God who made and governs the material world and the God of heaven who created souls, who alone should be adored. They thought all matter bad. It seems therefore obvious to count them as one of the many neo-Manichaean sects, in spite of their own denial and that of modern writers...But there is a strong Marcionite element too. They rejected the Old Testament; there was no Incarnation, Christ was an angel sent into the world by God, his real mother was the heavenly Jerusalem. His work consisted only in his teaching; to believe in him saves men from judgment. The true baptism and Eucharist consist in hearing his word, as in John 4:10.”1
The interesting thing about Catholic bashers is that their hatered for the Catholic Curch is the genisis for all of their arguments. You can't have a dialog with them, they've made up there minds that the Church is satanic and that's that. If you point out misperceptions or discrepancies in their argument, you're satan. You just feed into it. They have eyes but they do not see...or they refuse to see. Hate does not come from Jesus. The Catholic Church does not force anyone to belong. There's no peer pressure. The Catholic Church doesn't demonize other religions. The Church is about the mass and each individual's communion with their Creator and Savior. The Sacraments and the traditions contribute to that relationship. Unlike Evangelical Churches, there is authority. No one person in the Catholic Church has ever been able change Catholic Theology. Over 30,000 Christian denominations sprung up since the reformation. Which one is the truth? I'll take my chances with the Catholic Church. GOD Bless.
Tertullian, the great African Christian writer of the late second and early third century wrote several apologies of Christianity.one of them called De Praescriptione. In it he argues that Sacred Scripture, the Bible was given to mankind through the Catholic Church (by the way the only Church around at the time in those centuries when the canon of Scritpure was established). Given this fact, he argues that only the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret it authentically, or authoratitively. Now it should seem obvious to anyone that Jesus Christ hardly wanted some 36,000 groups claiming to be his on true Church. Plus, if as Protestants argue, at some stage the Catholic Church began to e unfaithful to Christ and the Gospel, from which one would have to conclude that for some time, several centuries I suppose, the one true Church of Christ simply stopped existing. Then came Luther, Calvin and others later in in the American protestant revivalism movement and they rediscovered or reestablished it. Now, it if Christ prommised that he would be with his Church all days until the end of the world, one would need to assume that he was going to fulfill his promise and that it wasn't going to disappear during several centuries to be reinvented or reestablished later.
I have yet to get a convincing answer from Protestants on that. It seems to be that Evengelicals hate Catholicism because of pure prejudice and unwillingness to really discover what it is about.
Luther considered, wrongly in my estimation and in that of the Catholic Church, that any common uneducated Christian can take up the Bible, a series of writngs going back 2000 to 3000 years with a very complex literary history and clearly understand it with no further help of explanation. This is the seed of the proliferationn of protestant sects, even in Luther's own lifetime. He could hardly legitimatley or convincingly criticize others who separated from his sect, as he had done the same from the Catholic Church. It is a bit like what happened in Canada when Quebec wanted to separate. English speaking folks in Montreal told the French speaking separatists that they would separaate from an independent Quebec and stay with Canada. What authority did the Quebec separatists to tell the other who would not go with them that they were wrong? In it absolutley essential that there be some authority which can decide what the Biblical revelation actually means. That is what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church does. It has been doing it since the first century. See for instance the Letter of St. Clement of Rome. or the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, which some protestant scholars have attempted to claim not to be his due to his unflinching defense of the monarchhic episcopate, the the ocuncil of presbyters and deacons as ministers, already unversal in the early second century. Of course the inauthenticity of these letters is untenable.
The teaching of the Catbolic Church is summarized in the Catechism of the Catholic Church available at www.vatican.va So,if Evangleicals have an open mind and want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, it is only a click away. If they have an open mind and are able to read it, then they might overcome some of their prejudices. They might also look at the lives of pf manyu saints. I would susggest that they might begin with Mother Theresa of Calcutta who is a very recent one. Then they might be open to dialogue and if they don't understand some of what they read, I am sure that they would easily find some kind and open minded Catholics who could explain it to them.
The comments on this blog are probably the best example ever as to what is wrong with religion today and since its inception. It does nothing but spread hate, fear, and ignorance.
Everyone says Christianity is supposed to be based on love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Yet, its those same people spreading hate. The abrahamic religions are all 90% the same if one reads each holy book with an open mind. Yet, instead of embracing your similarities, you argue over differences... Christians arguing over one another is even more pathetic. Seems like about the only time you guys can stand one another is when you're comparing Obama to Hitler for giving women contraception.... We all know that's how Hitler's reign started... Insurance mandates.
Using the guise of religion as a way to justify hate absolutely disgusts me. Using religion as a way to achieve political gains is even more disgusting.
The reason atheism and agnosticism are the growing so rapidly is because of the childish, hateful, and ignorant behavior of The Christian Right. So, go ahead and keep it up! The world will be free of religion quicker than you realize and it will be a better place for it. Faith is something personal and only something you yourself can decide. Respect other people's faith and keep your views to yourself.
Jesus wasn't the first god that humans have worshiped. I'm an atheist and if god could manifest and be in front of me I would definitely try and kill him. I hate god, I hate the idea, I hated being tricked into belief for 10 years by my parents. I hate the idea that contraception is evil because it only allows you to spread your filthy seed and indoctrinate them all. I want to genocide catholics, force them to renounce under threat of death and see where your god is then when I blow your brains out and eat your ribs with a 40 ounce and a blunt. Filth, your god is dead. I want to wipe the world clean of the memory of catholics. The attrocities commited only deserve further punishment from generation to generation. I'm sure the spilling of innocent blood is condemned in the bible, oh wait god told his people to capture and rape all of the women after they slaughter all of the men and old folks. Yep, its the "good" book. He's a god of mercy ladies and gentlemen, that's why incest, pedophilea, and genocide are ok, god said so. Even though its a book that is 2000 years old and was corrupted and changed by your very own religion, don't you feel special? Not to meantion it was written by men. As far as I'm concerned god and jesus have never said a single word. Why haven't I not died? I've tempted god over and over. Maybe he's too busy hosting the next West Borough Baptist church gathering to protest more funerals because we want to allow every person exact same rights no matter gender or sexuality. Did you know the Rwanda genocide, the worst genocide every was incited because the words of a catholic official? I would rather live in a country full of insane muslims than ever be allied with something so deadly. Atleast the taliban isn't responsible for countless genocides and attrocities. Atleast they don't condone the spread of aids in africa by telling them that's what god wants. OPIATE FOR THE MASSES! My gods will becomes me, when he speaks he speaks through me, he has needs like I do, we both want to rape you.
THAT IS IT! I am so tired of people like you talking about the church that way! Sure, its okay to do that to some other religion, but when someone else says something like this about something you believe in, the world is ending! You get all butthurt and wonder why they said something like that to you!
I left the Catholic Church for personal reasons but became a Messianic Jew because of all the hatred and bigotry that riddles every Protestant denomination. Messianic Jews believe in Jesus as Messiah, they believe in the New Testament, they believe in end time prophecies, they believe in the Kingship of Jesus (tell me exactly where in the Bible Jesus "converted" to Christianity).
What they do NOT believe in is bashing other religions, mocking Catholics and other non Protestant sects, they don't go around condemning everyone to Hell because they believe that it is God's job to judge and condemn, not mans. They believe in the LOVE and mercy of Yeshua (Jesus) and yes, His righteousness, but don't believe it is there job to spew hatred and bigotry from the pulpit.
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